Episode 17
Behind the Curtain at CMMG, Gun Culture & Navigating the ATF | #17 Mike O'Dell
Mike O'Dell from CMMG joins John and Kaylee for a long-form conversation that runs from the company's roots to the front lines of the fight over gun rights. Mike has been with the CMMG companies for a little over 11 years, with a hire date he never forgets because it landed on 9/11/12. He walks through his path into the industry: a local gun shop where he became assistant manager and then manager, becoming a firearms instructor through the University of Missouri's Law Enforcement Training Institute, a stint at Midway USA, and a chance reconnection with one of CMMG's owners at an MMA fight, owners he had known from church for more than 30 years. He traces CMMG from its 2002 start on the owner's land in Fayette, Missouri, to the 2016 move into an abandoned factory in Boonville, and a recent 30,000 square foot expansion that split the building into machining and production.
On product, Mike covers the company's habit of thinking outside the box: the early 22 conversion for the AR, the Mark 47 (the AK-magazine-fed "Mutant" built on a beefed-up 308 bolt), the radial delay blowback action that started in 45 ACP and carried over to calibers like 5.7, the bufferless Descent, and the Mark 57. He tells the legend of the range-day cooler, which started as his food cooler for the drive and became the tool the team uses to quench a full-auto Mark 47 between shooters. He explains why CMMG stepped back from big shows like SHOT and the NRA Annual Meeting, where return on investment is hard to judge, and put that money into the Outpost, their own range and clubhouse where guests get hands-on time with CMMG product and a captive audience.
The back half turns to policy. Mike and Kaylee dig into the ATF as a non-lawmaking body that regulates firearms, the "war on plastic" around bump stocks and pistol braces, and the disinformation around AR-15s. They discuss soft targets, campus carry, and carry in churches, including stories of changing a pastor's and a professor's minds through tactful conversation rather than argument. Mike addresses the criticism that CMMG "bends the knee" by complying with ATF rules, explaining that the company's license to do business is issued by that same agency, so it has to tread carefully while still putting its money where its mouth is by joining a Texas lawsuit over the pistol brace ban. Kaylee lays out GOA's strategy of amicus briefs and lawsuits, and the core point that if they kill the industry, they have killed the Second Amendment. They also get into marketing in a censored, algorithm-driven environment and the industry's vaporware problem versus CMMG's build-to-order approach.
Links
Questions this episode answers
How did Mike O'Dell get into the firearms industry and end up at CMMG?
Mike O'Dell started around 2007 at a local gun shop, rising to manager and becoming a firearms instructor through the University of Missouri's Law Enforcement Training Institute, then worked at Midway USA. He reconnected with a CMMG owner he had known from church for over 30 years, and was hired on 9/11/12.
Where did CMMG start, and how did the company grow from Fayette to Boonville, Missouri?
CMMG began in 2002 on the owner's land in Fayette, Missouri. In 2016 the company moved into an abandoned factory in Boonville and later added a 30,000 square foot expansion that split the building into separate machining and production areas.
What is the story behind the cooler CMMG brings to every range day?
The cooler started as Mike's personal food cooler for the drive to range days. The team filled it with water and began dunking the full-auto Mark 47 to quench and cool the barrel between shooters, then dropped a fresh magazine in so guests could keep firing.
Why did CMMG step back from SHOT Show and the NRA Annual Meeting to build the Outpost instead?
CMMG found the return on investment at big shows like SHOT Show and the NRA Annual Meeting hard to judge, so it redirected that money into the Outpost, its own range and clubhouse. There, guests get hands-on time with CMMG products in front of a captive audience.
What is the Mark 47 "Mutant" and why was it built around a 308 bolt and AK magazines?
The Mark 47 "Mutant" is one of CMMG's outside-the-box designs, an AK-magazine-fed rifle built on a beefed-up 308 bolt. It reflects the same inventive streak behind the company's early 22 conversion, the radial delay blowback action, the bufferless Descent, and the Mark 57.
Why does CMMG comply with ATF rules on pistol braces and buffer tubes if it supports the Second Amendment?
Mike explains that CMMG's license to do business is issued by the same agency that writes those rules, so the company has to tread carefully to stay operating. CMMG still put money behind the cause by joining a Texas lawsuit over the pistol brace ban.
How does Gun Owners of America fight ATF overreach on bump stocks and pistol braces?
Kaylee describes Gun Owners of America's strategy of amicus briefs and lawsuits against ATF overreach on issues like bump stocks and pistol braces. Her core point is that if regulators kill the industry, they have killed the Second Amendment.
Why is the gun industry's "vaporware" problem a risk, and how does CMMG's build-to-order model differ?
The episode contrasts the industry's vaporware problem, where products are announced but not delivered, with CMMG's build-to-order approach. That model means the company makes what it has actually committed to producing.
Chapters
- 00:42 — Meet Mike from CMMG
- 01:07 — Mike's path into the industry
- 04:29 — From Fayette to Boonville
- 06:41 — The Outpost range and clubhouse
- 07:22 — Product history and the Mark 47
- 09:33 — Radial delay blowback and the Descent
- 13:15 — The legend of the cooler
- 15:51 — 200,000 rounds through one gun
- 21:04 — Why CMMG left the big shows
- 27:09 — Shifting gears to the Second Amendment
- 29:48 — The ATF and the war on plastic
- 40:33 — Church carry, campus carry, and soft targets
- 51:01 — Marketing, demographics, and censorship
- 59:57 — Vaporware vs. build-to-order
- 1:11:31 — Complying with ATF and the fight for rights
- 1:17:57 — Where to find CMMG
About the guest
Mike O'Dell is the PR and Strategic Partners Manager at CMMG, where he has worked for a little over 11 years with a hire date of 9/11/12. He has been in the firearms industry since around 2007, starting at a local gun shop where he rose to assistant manager and then manager. He became a local firearms instructor and went through the University of Missouri's Law Enforcement Training Institute instructor program. Before CMMG he worked at Midway USA. He coordinates CMMG's events behind the scenes, including SHOT Show, NRA shows, range days, and the Iraq Vet shoot.
Key quotes
"we just kept growing and growing and we since we're out in the middle of nowhere, if you had inclement weather, you know, UPS or FedEx might not be able to make it, employees might not be able to make it." — Mike O'Dell
"we filled it with water, and we literally just started dunking the Mark 47 full auto in the cooler to quench it, cool it off really quick, and then immediately put a magazine back in and let people start shooting it again." — Mike O'Dell
"You don't have that, you know, firsthand experience, which speaks volumes." — Mike O'Dell
"carry the biggest caliber you can in the most comfortable platform possible and then just base it off of that." — Mike O'Dell
"you have a right that is constitutionally protected, not government granted. Period, full stop." — Kaylee
"We at the end of the day, if they kill the industry, they've killed the second amendment." — Kaylee
"if it is that easy, go start an ffl, go start a manufacturing process and see how easy this stuff actually is." — Mike O'Dell
Transcript
There's a reason why I halfway think Iraq Vet is.
Speaker A:It's the initiation.
Speaker A:If you're new to Iraq Vet, you go next to cmmg and we're like, just loud as can be.
Speaker A:And they're like, oh, not next year.
Speaker B:Kurt and I plotted for the longest time to figure out what we could get louder than your gun and put it next to you.
Speaker B:So it was more hateful.
Speaker A:We actually had competition this year, Iraq Vet.
Speaker A:So, yeah, he actually, like, went to his truck or something and got something special out and came back because he's like, I don't have anything on the table loud enough.
Speaker B:So.
Speaker A:But all right, enough wasting the good stories for now.
Speaker A:We can have this during the podcast.
Speaker A:This is fun.
Speaker B:So, okay, so we'll just roll into it.
Speaker B:So we have today our good friend Mike from CMMG, who's been there for ever.
Speaker A:Yeah, a little over 11 years.
Speaker B:That's.
Speaker B:That's rare in this industry.
Speaker A:It's a good company.
Speaker A:I like where I'm at.
Speaker A:I don't plan on going anywhere, so.
Speaker B:So why don't you go ahead and give us kind of the backstory of you.
Speaker B:Backstory of CMMG and how you doing today and all the fun stuff.
Speaker B:We're jumping right into it.
Speaker A:Backstory of me.
Speaker A:Well, hang on.
Speaker A:How long is this podcast?
Speaker A:I'm old as dirt, but no.
Speaker A:So I've been with the CMMG companies for, like I said, a little over 11 years.
Speaker A:I remember my hire date because it was 9 11.
Speaker A:I didn't realize it at the time, but it was the Benghazi date.
Speaker A:So I was actually hired on 9, 11, 12.
Speaker A:And then after that all happened, I'm like, oh, I'm definitely never going to forget, you know, my.
Speaker A:My higher date.
Speaker A: ndustry since, I want to say,: Speaker A:So I actually, I started by working at a little local gun shop.
Speaker A:I just, you know, I. I had friends at a previous job that took me out shooting handguns, and I quickly got addicted to shooting handguns.
Speaker A:And I frequented and became a member of our local range.
Speaker A:And I was there anytime I had any spare time.
Speaker A:And then I started buying a bunch of guns there.
Speaker A:And then a position came open, hopped on, became assistant manager of that place, went through, became a local firearms instructor, went through, like, the University of Missouri's Law Enforcement Training Institute, which is their police academy.
Speaker A:I took their instructor program.
Speaker A:So I actually went through that to become an instructor.
Speaker A:So my credentials hold a fair amount of Weight in the state of Missouri.
Speaker A:We'll just say it that way.
Speaker A:And I left there, went to work for Midway USA for a little while, and then helped another friend out with the business and ran into one of the owners of CMMG at a MMA fight.
Speaker A:And I've actually.
Speaker A:I've actually known the owners.
Speaker A:We met in church 30 plus years ago, and I ran into him at MMA fight one night.
Speaker A:He's like, what are you doing?
Speaker A:I'm like, hey, I'd love to work for, you know, your gun store.
Speaker A:And a couple days later, I get a call saying, hey, can you come in and talk to me about working at the gun store?
Speaker A:So got in there, just really worked hard, made sure that they knew that I was there to support them and to help them grow any way they could.
Speaker A:And I was dedicated to the growth of that company.
Speaker A:And within a few months, I became the manager, did a little local radio show on the weekends talking about guns and stuff.
Speaker A:They found out I can actually speak decently in front of people.
Speaker A:I learned the product well.
Speaker A:They took me to shot show, and then I kind of just have carved my own path within the company.
Speaker A:So the rest, as they say, is history.
Speaker A:You know, I get to.
Speaker A:I get to come do fun stuff like this.
Speaker A:I get to go to things like Iraq Vet shoot.
Speaker A:You know, I do Shot show when we used to do that ton of fun stuff.
Speaker B:So what is your official title over there?
Speaker A:It's like, what is it this week?
Speaker A:PR and strategic partners Manager?
Speaker A:I believe so.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:I just try to watch the PR side of things, and I pair up with different companies and industry partners and stuff to see how we can work together to help, you know, help them grow their side of things, us grow our side of things, and we all share a mutual message.
Speaker B:So you guys started off in Fayette, Missouri?
Speaker A:Yep.
Speaker A:And now you say misery, Missouri misery.
Speaker B:No, I love.
Speaker B:As long as it's not St. Louis.
Speaker B:I love Missouri.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:Two.
Speaker A:2002 In Fayette, Missouri, actually on the owner's land.
Speaker A:So kind of out in the middle of nowhere.
Speaker A:It was.
Speaker A:It's the.
Speaker A:The owners, you know, they.
Speaker A:They took their love of firearms and started.
Speaker A:Started manufacturing with a few family members and then slowly brought on some more.
Speaker A:More staff and kept growing.
Speaker A:And then the family building, it just had to grow.
Speaker A:You know, they kept.
Speaker A:Kept putting more stuff in the building, but they didn't make the building any bigger, so they were adding floors in places that there might not necessarily need to be a floor, but it could fit, we could fit an office or something in there.
Speaker A:And it was the proverbial stuffing, 10 pounds of crap into a five pound bag.
Speaker A:And we just kept growing and growing and we since we're out in the middle of nowhere, if you had inclement weather, you know, UPS or FedEx might not be able to make it, employees might not be able to make it.
Speaker A:You know, roads got flooded to get there, so it was kind of tricky on, on how to get in and out of there at times.
Speaker A:As we started producing more and more and doing more things in house, like we started turning our own barrels and stuff.
Speaker A:Well, we didn't even have the power grid to be able to handle those machines, so we had to do that off site.
Speaker A: And then in: Speaker A:So and when we got to that place it was, I'm using nice round numbers, around 40,000 square feet.
Speaker A:And I remember looking at it going, look at all this room that we have.
Speaker A:You know, the stepbrothers, we have so much room for activities.
Speaker A:And we quickly filled that.
Speaker A:And then last year we completed our expansion of an additional 30,000 square feet.
Speaker A:So we have one side that's nothing but machining, the other side is production.
Speaker B:And then you guys also, if I'm not mistaken, open to your own range and kind of cool hangout spot for people to come out.
Speaker A:Yep.
Speaker A:We have a place we affectionately call the Outpost.
Speaker A:It is some acreage on the south side of the of Boonville and we have our own clubhouse where we can bring people in and you know, just cater events.
Speaker A:And then right down the hill from the clubhouse itself, we have a range.
Speaker A:It's covered concrete shooting area, ceiling fans, WI fi.
Speaker A:I mean we're out in the middle of nowhere and we, we, we cater to be able to have like content creators come out and be able to have a good usable space.
Speaker A:And we have like 50 yard and 300 yard, you know, shooting ranges.
Speaker A:So.
Speaker B:Yeah, so products kind of have gone kind of wide and, and good.
Speaker B:So if I remember, CMG first started off with the 22 LR kind of bolt conversion kits for the AR.
Speaker A:Well, I mean technically we started the 556 AR, right?
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:I think one of the first things that really kind of that popped up on people's radar as far as doing something a little outside the box for an AR was doing the 22 conversion.
Speaker B:Goods and then it kind of just went from there and then the, the Mutant or the, the MK47.
Speaker A:Yep.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:That's the most hateful thing if you're a vendor at a range day next to y'.
Speaker B:All.
Speaker B:But.
Speaker A:Right, yeah.
Speaker A: So it was late: Speaker A:So our owners are big AK guys and.
Speaker A:But we build ARS.
Speaker A:So they wanted to do a 762 by 39 AR.
Speaker A:What we think is the right way, because for one, you got the 762x39 round.
Speaker A:It's a tapered round.
Speaker A:It needs the AK Magazine.
Speaker A:It's designed to feed nothing.
Speaker A:There are millions of those things on the planet.
Speaker A:They work well.
Speaker A:Okay.
Speaker A:It's got to take the AK magazine.
Speaker A:The other thing is, back when we introduced it, you know, metal development, metallurgy and stuff was still coming along.
Speaker A:It still is now.
Speaker A:But if you took a standard 5.56 bolt face and you milled it open to be able to take seven.
Speaker A:62 By 39, you made for a very weak bolt face.
Speaker A:Especially if you're running steel case ammo all the time.
Speaker A:You're looking at, you know, things being prone to the ejectors and things like that being prone to fail, know, rather quickly because they're not as beefy as they could be.
Speaker A:So we took ours, we took our 308 and said, hey, that's beefy enough.
Speaker A:And then we shorten it up and we made a midsize platform that takes AK magazines is a really beefy bolt.
Speaker A:And it's the.
Speaker A:The Mark 47 was born.
Speaker B:And then after that, you guys kind of got into the radial delay blowback and then the descent and all those and 5, 7 and adding a bunch of new stuff.
Speaker A:Yeah, so that's just.
Speaker C:We're.
Speaker A:We're not happy with just, you know, sitting back and just offering new 556 and 300 blackout versions.
Speaker A:We want to kind of push ourselves.
Speaker A:So when we came out with the radio delay blowback, we initially released that in 45 ACP.
Speaker A:Because the 9 millimeter market, we already had one.
Speaker A:I mean, we had a traditional blowback or straight blowback nine millimeter.
Speaker A:We're like, okay, we don't need to tackle that yet.
Speaker A:Let's challenge ourselves.
Speaker A:Let's come up with something fun.
Speaker A:And nobody really had 45 ars.
Speaker A:So we started looking at that and we're like, okay, well, it has, it has too much for traditional blowback, but it doesn't have enough pressure for di.
Speaker A:So we had to try to figure out a way to get around that.
Speaker A:And the radial delay blowback was born from that.
Speaker A:And then we just found out that it lended itself to all the other pistol calibers and things like five, seven quite well.
Speaker A:And it really, the nice thing about it is since you're almost still using a traditional AR bolt carrier, you have a lot less reciprocating mass, so you don't have as much of a recoil impulse.
Speaker A:So that's one of the things that I found.
Speaker A:You know, I, I wasn't expecting it.
Speaker A:The first time I ever shot a 9 millimeter AR, I already had a 5.56 and I went to a range and they had a 9 millimeter, I'm like, I want to shoot the 9 millimeter AR.
Speaker A:And it had more punch in my shoulder than a 556 did.
Speaker A:And I'm like, hang on, this does not compute.
Speaker A:My brain did not process the, the, you know, bolt mass moving as to the felt recoil.
Speaker A:So we, we tamed that down and then a little over a year ago we came out with the Descent, which is our compact action.
Speaker A:So the bufferless AR system.
Speaker A:So yeah, we're, we're constantly.
Speaker A:And, and then actually as of depending on when this airs, but as of when we're recording this Yesterday, we.
Speaker A:So November 7th, to be more specific, we actually just released the Mark 47 in the descent.
Speaker A:So we have the AK Magazine, you know, mid sized platform over, over built bolt in the whole bufferless system.
Speaker B:Yeah, we were, Kaylee and I were just out in Tennessee hanging out with Big Kid.
Speaker B:Oh yeah, Steve was talking about it and I'm like, Steve, this, he had one of the.
Speaker B:Oh, what's that special coating you guys did?
Speaker B:The.
Speaker A:Oh, the, the Putina.
Speaker B:Yeah, the Putina again.
Speaker B:And I'm like, this is the sexiest thing I've.
Speaker A:Yeah, we do, we do a few special coatings every once in a while for sometimes for like big box stores if they want to do like a special run.
Speaker A:But that was, it was actually, I actually want to say Steve is the one that named it.
Speaker A:So he actually, he was out at our facilities in February when we released the 9 millimeter descent.
Speaker A:And we had a few different paint options to possibly choose from if they wanted to get a gun in one of those paint options.
Speaker A:And there was like kind of like a Rhodesian, you know, camo.
Speaker A:And there's a few different things that were kind of floating around and collectively everybody picked up on that like weathered or patinaed finish.
Speaker A:And I'm pretty sure it was Steve that dubbed it Putina instead of patina, so it just kind of stuck.
Speaker B:No, that's great.
Speaker B:So if anybody's been to a range day with you, you guys are the staple of most range days, being the loudest and the.
Speaker B:The most awesome booth.
Speaker A:That's a badge of honor.
Speaker A:We love.
Speaker A:We just.
Speaker A:We know.
Speaker A:We.
Speaker A:We know what people expect of us at those range days, and we just support it.
Speaker B:So there is something that travels with you to every range day that has this legend behind it, and that would be the cooler goes into.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:So how did this legend of this cooler come about?
Speaker A:Well, honestly, it.
Speaker A:It.
Speaker A:It's kind of a funny story.
Speaker A:So I. I am the person that behind the scenes, coordinates all of our events.
Speaker A:Like the shot shows, the NRA shows, you know, traveling to range days, traveling Iraq vet.
Speaker A:Unfortunately, I've had more times than I would like things not arrive.
Speaker A:So send crates of ammo to shot show, and you show up at range day, and crate's missing, and I'm like, wow, there was only, like, you know, 20,000 rounds of ammo in that crate, and it's on a dock somewhere.
Speaker A:Or I'd go to Iraq vet or someplace, and the crate for everything would have not been delivered on time.
Speaker A:So my answer to that is, I'm going to start driving to these events myself, and it's not going to.
Speaker A:If.
Speaker A:If.
Speaker A:If I don't make it.
Speaker A:We have big enough problems, you know, that the guns aren't there.
Speaker A:I'm not there.
Speaker A:Nothing's happening.
Speaker A:So actually, the cooler was literally my food cooler for the drive down.
Speaker A:And I had, like, you know, water and stuff in it.
Speaker A:And we noticed that people were just running the gun so much.
Speaker A:It was getting so hot, you couldn't handle it.
Speaker A:And gloves would only do so much.
Speaker A:And we couldn't let the gun be down very long because you've been to the range days, we always have a line like, people are just like, I'm.
Speaker A:I'm gonna shoot that thing.
Speaker A:You know, if I don't care how long I have to wait, I'm in this line, I'm going to shoot that thing.
Speaker A:And it would get so hot that people just couldn't even touch it.
Speaker A:So we filled it with water, and we literally just started dunking the Mark 47 full auto in the cooler to quench it, cool it off really quick, and then immediately put a magazine back in and let people start shooting it again.
Speaker A:So it just kind of became the staple.
Speaker A:People love seeing us torture that gun.
Speaker A:And then there was one year, a car caught on fire.
Speaker A:At the back of the range.
Speaker A:And as luck would have it, we had water, and one of our guys grabbed the cooler and just took off running downrange to start pouring the water on the fire.
Speaker A:So we became like the fire brigade for iron but too.
Speaker A:So it's just a ton of fun.
Speaker A:So, yeah, there's.
Speaker A:There's a lore behind that cooler.
Speaker A:And if we don't bring that cooler, I'm not sure what people would be more mad at if we didn't bring the cooler or if we didn't bring the full auto mark 47.
Speaker B:Oh, that's a tough one.
Speaker B:I didn't honestly.
Speaker A:Probably the Mark 47.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:While I'd like to think that the cooler is all that.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:It's still not the Mark 47.
Speaker B:What is you.
Speaker B:You've brought that Mark 47 almost everywhere.
Speaker B:What's the round count on that?
Speaker A:Well, I finally retired the original.
Speaker B:Did you?
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A: ent to eventually starting in: Speaker A:And we.
Speaker A:The funny thing is we never actually kept a solid count.
Speaker A:We just know, hey, I went to this event with this much ammo, I came back with none and had to buy more or, you know, whatever the situation was.
Speaker A:So we estimate it was north of 200,000 rounds through that gun with all.
Speaker A:All still original barrel, original bolt, original upper and lower things like ejectors and extractors and hammer and trigger pins and stuff had been replaced because those.
Speaker A:They're going to get beat up.
Speaker A:But it still had rifling.
Speaker A:It just wasn't engaging the projectile any longer.
Speaker A:So we were seeing.
Speaker A:We were seeing keyholes at pretty close yardages.
Speaker A:I was like, okay, just to be safe, let's just go ahead and retire it.
Speaker A:Which made some people upset.
Speaker A:They're like, well, why don't you just re barrel it?
Speaker A:I'm like, because then it's not the original gun.
Speaker A:I was like, I can legitimately say that gun had this many rounds through it.
Speaker A:If I replace big parts like that, it's no longer the original gun.
Speaker B:Where's that gun now?
Speaker A:I believe it's in one of the owner's offices.
Speaker B:Okay.
Speaker B:So it's.
Speaker B:It's hanging out.
Speaker A:It has not been decommissioned.
Speaker A:It has just been retired.
Speaker A:So to replace it, we actually built twins to replace it so that if one gets a little hot, we can grab another one while that one's cooling down.
Speaker A:We still quench them in water, but yeah, that's.
Speaker B:That's insane.
Speaker C:200,000 Rounds well, I'm going to give my.
Speaker C:My story of first meeting you guys.
Speaker C: Goa, so that would have been: Speaker A:Okay.
Speaker C:And very much the initiation.
Speaker C:We were the row behind you guys, and people would just grab us and be like, we want to talk about such and such issue.
Speaker C:And we would like go to the parking lot to have conversations.
Speaker C:It was.
Speaker C:It was an incredible feeling because you.
Speaker C:You definitely feel that.
Speaker C:That through your entire body.
Speaker C:Like, it's.
Speaker C:It's a.
Speaker C:It's quite the.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:You cannot.
Speaker A:You cannot have a conversation.
Speaker C:No, anywhere near it.
Speaker A:Anytime we're set up on a range, do not have a conversation next to us, because you're just not going to have it.
Speaker A:So people will try to come to our booth and try to interview me.
Speaker A:I'm like, here.
Speaker A:Have you heard us today?
Speaker B:It is the staple of every IV88 shoot.
Speaker B:Where it.
Speaker B:No matter where you are on the range, you know that we're always.
Speaker A:We're always over on the far.
Speaker A:On the far right side because we actually have that pile of steel that the guys that I'm not.
Speaker A:This isn't too vulgar.
Speaker A:The.
Speaker A:The guys that actually own the range say there is a pile of mutant poop over there on the hill.
Speaker A:They've never done a magnet or anything and pulled it all up.
Speaker A:It is.
Speaker A:It is like officially become range aggregate.
Speaker A:It is.
Speaker A:It is part of the range now.
Speaker B:So when I worked at Faxon, we were right next to you the one year, and it was like, can we move?
Speaker B:That's got to be the.
Speaker B:That's the rite of passage.
Speaker A:It is.
Speaker A:It's got to.
Speaker A:I think that might be something that Brandy does to people and she doesn't tell them.
Speaker A:You're like, oh, this is your first range.
Speaker A:Say you're going right next to cmmg.
Speaker A:We'll see if you're back.
Speaker A:If you're back, you deserve to be back.
Speaker B:Everybody tries to find something more hateful to put next to you, and it just doesn't work.
Speaker A:I love it when Brandy puts, like, a suppressor company right next to me.
Speaker A:I'm like, you realize nobody's gonna know if that thing's working very well or not because they can't hear a thing.
Speaker A:I mean, it could be working great because they definitely are not hearing their gun.
Speaker B:I mean, you're not wrong.
Speaker A:So that actually might be a good sales, you know, sales tactic for.
Speaker A:And be like, you can't hear it, can you?
Speaker A:Never mind that.
Speaker A:That's so loud.
Speaker A:But yeah, you can't hear it.
Speaker A:It works great.
Speaker C:Oh, my goodness.
Speaker C:I'm impressed that you have hearing.
Speaker A:Well, I mean, so.
Speaker A:So to go on that little tangent, if we want to, I'll go ahead and tell everybody right now.
Speaker A:Invest in quality eye in Ear Pro.
Speaker A:Yes, I. I have a very, very good set of Ear Pro that I've used for years.
Speaker A:They were not cheap and I will attribute the fact that I still have hearing to that.
Speaker A:So, of course, I haven't told you how loud they had to crank these up for me to hear you guys.
Speaker B:Oh, man.
Speaker B:No, that's the.
Speaker B:Like I said, that's the highlight of every range days.
Speaker B:You guys going out.
Speaker B:So you guys.
Speaker A:Yeah, the one show that I went to, went to the Gundies.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:And they put us right next to Dylan.
Speaker A:I'm like, all right.
Speaker A:They're really trying to have somebody show us up now.
Speaker A:It's like you have a minigun.
Speaker A:Okay.
Speaker A:Can't quite compete with that.
Speaker A:But I mean, we tried.
Speaker B:You tried.
Speaker B:So you guys for years have done a ton of different shows.
Speaker B:Up until recently, you guys have not done some of the bigger shows.
Speaker B:What was the decision behind nothing doing shot and things like that?
Speaker A:I mean, honestly, it's part of it.
Speaker A:Is there?
Speaker A:Is it?
Speaker A:It's very hard to judge a good return on investment for that show it for.
Speaker A:For people that aren't in the industry, for manufacturers and vendors, that is a hefty expense.
Speaker A:I won't go into the dollar amount, but if you just think about it, you know, it's.
Speaker A:It's NSSF's biggest show and biggest fundraiser essentially of the year.
Speaker A:And vendors have to pay for their square footage.
Speaker A:So that's one expense you literally are paying to say, okay, I want to set up a booth in this space.
Speaker A:Well, then you're going to have the cost of the booth.
Speaker A:Then you have the labor to set it up.
Speaker A:Then you have, you know, the different fees associated with the, you know, the convention centers, unions and stuff to, to maintain and everything.
Speaker A:Then you have staffing, then you have lodging, airfare to get them there, feed them while they're there, making sure you're still paying their wages while they're there.
Speaker A:And you're looking at a very, you know, big show.
Speaker A:And we bring a fair amount of staff because we're one of those people that if you stand in front of me at a trade show and you want to talk to me about.
Speaker A:About my gun, I don't care what your badge says, I'm going to talk to you about my Gun, you know, I mean, there are certain people at Shot show that you can go to a, to one of the exhibitor booths and if your badge says manufacturer or vendor, they kind of ignore you.
Speaker A:Like, they're not going to buy anything from me.
Speaker A:Like, you know what, me, Mike, personally, the non CMMG guy, I want to buy your stuff.
Speaker A:I'm here to talk to you about it.
Speaker A:But if you don't want to talk to me about it, I, I'm going to feel a little bit less about your product.
Speaker A:So I don't even care what your badge says.
Speaker A:If you're standing in front of me, I'm going to talk to you about my gun.
Speaker B:I've experienced that.
Speaker B:You know, I've walked around, I've done both.
Speaker B:I've done a booth and I've walked around Shot show and there's been one Shot show in particular.
Speaker B:I won't say what company and what company I was working for at the time, but I walked up to him and we were doing stuff with him and I was like, oh, I just want to see, because this is a cool collaboration.
Speaker B:And they kind of like shoved me away like that rubbed me the wrong way.
Speaker B:And really, like, I was like, this is supposed to be a community.
Speaker B:We're supposed to be friends and hanging out, right?
Speaker B:You're pushing me away from this.
Speaker B:So.
Speaker A:Well, I mean, there's, there's a little bit of depth to that too.
Speaker A:I'd like to think that not everybody is going to kind of be that way, but you also have to stop a thing too.
Speaker A:When you are getting into some of the big trade shows like that, depending on the size of the company, sometimes they hire people out to work the booth that might not be as versed on the product.
Speaker A:You know, they might just kind of be told this is assumptions based off of just different experiences.
Speaker A:This isn't anything that, you know, we at CMMG have done it like you're, you're going to see people that they're going to, they're going to set the hook.
Speaker A:Like, okay, this is a dealer that they show this much interest, or they're a wholesaler or they're a big buyer.
Speaker A:You know, they set the hook and then they get them into a room to actually make the deals.
Speaker A:If your badge doesn't show that you can possibly even get into that room, they're probably not going to talk to you much.
Speaker B:And I've seen you guys, and I'm, I've seen you guys kind of shift from those shows to doing a lot of Media at, in Boonville and having people out.
Speaker B:Are you guys seeing a better ROI from doing it that way?
Speaker A:And we can, we can definitely gauge it a lot better.
Speaker A:I mean, we, we have a real time, hey, we did this.
Speaker A:And we immediately saw this as a return, you know, or, you know, you have a captive audience.
Speaker A:So, you know, kind of circling back to things we just talked about and kind of compressing them all together.
Speaker A:You know, we, we did build the Outpost and we did quit doing larger shows like, you know, Shot and nraam, but the money we saved on not doing those allowed us to build the Outpost.
Speaker A:So if you want to have an idea of like the kind of money involved there, we were able to purchase land, build a range, excavate it, build a clubhouse and everything in lieu of doing those big shows.
Speaker A:But the nice thing about this is, you know, now we can bring people in and we have a captive audience.
Speaker A:When they come in, they're seeing CMMG product and CMMG product only.
Speaker A:They don't have to say, hang on, what was that gun we just saw five minutes ago at that one booth with that dude that did the, you know, whatever, you know, yeah, you know, you, you have to, you have to be able to have something memorable at a show where we're going to bring you in and we're going to get you invested in cmmg.
Speaker A:You know, we're going to bring you in, we're gonna let you see the manufacturing process, we're gonna let you, you know, test each one of the guns.
Speaker A:Because the best thing to do to be able to get the word out is you can say you've seen a video on a particular gun all day long, but if you've never pulled the trigger on it, you do.
Speaker A:You don't have that, you know, firsthand experience, which speaks volumes.
Speaker A:So the more people we can bring in and let them get firsthand real world experience with our guns, that's going to sell them.
Speaker B:Yeah, I've been really blessed, I will say that, to be able to go to range days with you guys, got to handle some products, did some reviews for you on some of your products over the years.
Speaker B:And I will say this, go buy a cmmg.
Speaker B:That's my pitch.
Speaker B:I can go into more details, but just go check out cmmg, go buy their stuff.
Speaker A:I too am going to say, go buy cmmg.
Speaker C:So slightly shifting gears, I know that at Gunstock we had a team there, you guys were obviously there and you said some stuff and people who want to kind of scroll back into the Archives can watch the video that you did talking about how we work together.
Speaker C:And I want to say that it is so exciting and reinvigorating for us and our membership to see a company like CMMG talk about how good the second amendment is.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker C:And you guys bring some amazing products to the range and some full autos that everyone wants to have.
Speaker C:But unfortunately politics and policies have made that so foreign to the culture of today.
Speaker A:Well, you're just dancing around this a.
Speaker B:Little bit, aren't you?
Speaker A:I'm thinking about being a lot more direct.
Speaker C:Go for it.
Speaker A:Basically you're implying, in my opinion, or I'm inferring, that there is a non lawmaking body out there that is regulating firearms.
Speaker C:Yes.
Speaker C:How'd you know?
Speaker B:It's like they got a three letter word.
Speaker C:I know, right?
Speaker A:I mean, well, actually, it's actually five.
Speaker A:Well, yeah, yeah, because it's a bureau.
Speaker C:And you've done explosives and they have explosives.
Speaker B:Yeah, I mean, it's a convenience store.
Speaker B:Really?
Speaker A:Yeah, yeah, it's the ultimate convenience store, actually.
Speaker A:I mean, it should be a convenience store.
Speaker C:You know, fun fact.
Speaker C:It is.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:So there was actually one in Columbia, Missouri.
Speaker C:Really?
Speaker C:Yes, I, I had to stop and it was in, it was in Arizona on the way to the Big Sandy machine gun shoot.
Speaker C:And we're looking and we're like, atf convenience store.
Speaker C:What the heck is that?
Speaker C:And so we ended up just like deciding to make a detour just as a group.
Speaker C:We're like, well, this is either gonna be really great or like super disappointing.
Speaker C:It was amazing.
Speaker C:10 Out of 10 recommend whoever.
Speaker C:Like the owner wasn't there because like we wanted to shake his hand and be like, this is awesome.
Speaker A:Right?
Speaker C:But yeah, I mean, what a, what a concept.
Speaker A:Oh, it's perfect.
Speaker A:I mean, that is, that, that is painting.
Speaker A:Yeah, those three letters.
Speaker A:In a positive light.
Speaker C:Yes.
Speaker A:But yeah, I mean, ultimately, I mean, any infringement is too many.
Speaker A:I mean, and it doesn't matter what it is.
Speaker A:If it's, I mean, if I want to kind of get on the activist side of things, I don't care a bump stock, it's a piece of plastic.
Speaker A:It's not a firearm.
Speaker A:It's definitely not a machine gun.
Speaker A:It's an accessory.
Speaker A:It is a piece of plastic that you put on the gun.
Speaker C:Yep.
Speaker A:The pistol braces, that has been, I mean, and the thing is they are, they're systematically like just trying to just wear us down, you know, it's, it's like, it feels like they just keep barraging us with so much stuff that Something's gonna slide through or we're gonna be like, oh, okay, this again.
Speaker A:Okay, I'll give you this.
Speaker A:Don't have this, you know.
Speaker A:Yeah, but that's where it is.
Speaker A:It's like, you know, it's always those little bits, you know, all the people that are, you know, anti gun, that are, you know, hey, I want to have, you know, universal background checks or common sense gun control.
Speaker A:I mean, it just makes my brain hurt thinking about that terminology.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker A:Because for one, the background checks already exist.
Speaker A:Okay.
Speaker A:There are other reasons that the systems in place might not be working.
Speaker A:I mean, you, you can't make murder more illegal.
Speaker C:Absolutely.
Speaker A:You know, so it's.
Speaker A:You know, the funny thing is, pro second Amendment arguments are so simple, they almost sound like trivial or just like they almost sound childish when you're just.
Speaker A:When you just kind of say them.
Speaker A:But it's, it's because it is that simple that they have to.
Speaker A:Anti gunners have to come up with a convoluted mess to confuse people into thinking that they are bad.
Speaker C:Absolutely.
Speaker C:I mean, it all goes down to the founders pinned.
Speaker C:27 Words.
Speaker C:Yeah, 27 words.
Speaker C:And they conveyed the whole message.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker C:And it's so the reason that I so agree with, with what you're saying with the gun control sounds convoluted is because we understand innately in ourselves that this is a right, that is a natural right.
Speaker C:It's not a government granted right.
Speaker C:And I know we say this every episode and on GOA all the time, you have a right that is constitutionally protected, not government granted.
Speaker C:Period, full stop.
Speaker C:Like, that's it.
Speaker C:And it is so crazy when you look at how many words and how, how much legalese has to take place for all of the gun control that has happened from the time that they passed the second amendment to now.
Speaker C:And it's.
Speaker C:We talk about the ATF's war on plastic and it has significant ramifications.
Speaker C:And you know, goa, sister organization, Gun Owners foundation, and they did a video.
Speaker C:One of their video series is called Bullet Points.
Speaker C:And they went through the history of pistol braces and it predates the Second Amendment.
Speaker C:Like when you go back to what Buren said, when you go Back to how GoFundMe and GOA have argued for the Second Amendment throughout the history of our organization.
Speaker C:And for Goa it was 76, and for GoF it was 83.
Speaker C:We've been doing this for a decent amount of time.
Speaker C:We've always gone back to the text, history and tradition of the Second Amendment.
Speaker C:And guess what?
Speaker C:When you go back to that you see that especially with the pistol brace argument that they, they really don't, they don't stand a chance.
Speaker B:Yeah, well, you know the pistol brace makes things shoot faster.
Speaker B:Right?
Speaker B:You know that was said on the hill.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker B:And I just love how, I can't remember who said it, but he's like the Internet is going to eat you alive for saying that.
Speaker B:That the pistol brace made the gun trooper.
Speaker B:I just want the gun that has 100 rounds in the chamber.
Speaker B:I'm sorry, that sounds dope.
Speaker A:I was like there are so many things that have just been.
Speaker A:There's so many fallacies that have been spewed out of certain politicians mouths.
Speaker A:That is just.
Speaker A:It makes us cringe because we realize how horrible and how just flat out dumb they sound.
Speaker A:But the people that aren't educated on firearms, it's, it either makes them scared or it makes them go, oh yeah, these guys make sense.
Speaker A:It's like, and that's the thing is like they can lie faster than we can tell the truth.
Speaker C:Well it, what is the famous saying that a lie circles the globe what, three times before the, the truth puts on its shoes?
Speaker C:Like, who said that?
Speaker C:Somebody's gonna have to look that up for me, it's like, wasn't it Mark Twain?
Speaker B:I'm pretty sure it might be Mark Twain.
Speaker C:I mean we'll attribute it to somebody.
Speaker C:The Google machine knows what I'm talking about.
Speaker A:Right?
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:I mean the, the nonsense that has been said just in the last five.
Speaker A:Years like 30 caliber clip.
Speaker B:30 Caliber clip.
Speaker A:Shoots it all in half a second.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:AR15 weighs as much as 50 shipping boxes.
Speaker C:You know, like, dude, I am she Hulk.
Speaker A:If that is true, the amount of damage in AR15 around us, you know, the 5.56 round, it just.
Speaker B:9 Mil blows along, clear out.
Speaker A:Like my favorite though is the possible attachment from USA Today that they put the chainsaw on the bottom.
Speaker A:Possible attachments, chainsaw.
Speaker A:Like yeah, hang on, you got something we can support now?
Speaker C:It's so insane, the disinformation campaign.
Speaker C:And we talk about the vilification of a firearm, right?
Speaker C:And it's because everyday good people own firearms.
Speaker C:And you know, it's, it's one of those things where I think the culture and the mindset of the anti gun left is like all of these people are dangerous.
Speaker C:And the reality is, is that gun owners are everyday people.
Speaker C:They work in the same offices as you do.
Speaker C:You're probably friends with them, your kids in little league together, they go to church with you.
Speaker C:Assuming that you go to church.
Speaker C:Like, all of these things, like, we're just everyday people, and this has been something that has been a part of our culture since the very beginning.
Speaker C:But the problem is that they want to control the narrative so much that they can't accept the fact that we are good and normal people.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker A:I mean, just flying in here last night, we are.
Speaker A:Our plane had rocket boosters or something going because we landed a solid half an hour before we were supposed to.
Speaker A:So we got a heck of a tailwind.
Speaker A:We actually, they, like, parked us at some remote spot on the Runway because the plane before us was still at the gate.
Speaker C:Oh, wow.
Speaker A:So we're just like, sitting out there.
Speaker A:So there's this guy in the row in front of me, and we're.
Speaker A:We're talking about camera gear and photo gear and stuff.
Speaker A:So we just start, you know, start having a conversation about, you know, videography, photography, microphones, new cool gear and stuff that's coming out.
Speaker A:And we're just sitting there having this conversation.
Speaker A:And then as we're getting off the plane, he's like, oh, you in town for business?
Speaker A:Like, he was like, the what I did for a living never came up.
Speaker A:And I'm like, yeah, I'm in town to do a podcast.
Speaker A:He was like, oh, really?
Speaker A:What about?
Speaker A:And sometimes, I hate to say, but it's kind of taboo to talk about in public because you don't know what kind of scene that person or how they're going to react.
Speaker A:So I just kind of generally said second Amendment.
Speaker A:And you could see the processing.
Speaker A:Like, you could almost kind of see, like, he's like, okay, you know, So I don't know, did I just offend him?
Speaker A:And he's just like.
Speaker A:Or he was just like, hang on.
Speaker A:This guy was cool.
Speaker A:Now he's not.
Speaker A:I don't.
Speaker A:I don't know what was going on in his head, but, you know, we both were just kind of like, yeah, it's kind of a polarizing topic right now.
Speaker A:And he's like, yeah, it is.
Speaker A:He's like, good luck with that.
Speaker A:And I'm like, okay.
Speaker A:I don't know if that's genuine, but if it is, cool, thank you.
Speaker A:Yeah, I mean, I've had, you know, at church in Missouri, at least in order to carry concealed in a church, you have to have permission.
Speaker A:So I was seeking permission to carry my church, but they do it basically by committee because they have a bunch of pastors.
Speaker A:So they collectively, it's like, majority, yes, you're good.
Speaker A:Majority, no, you can't.
Speaker A:And everybody.
Speaker A:I talked to is like, you're not going to get this one to.
Speaker A:To change his mind.
Speaker A:And he's the one that's gonna.
Speaker A:He's gonna be.
Speaker A:He's gonna be the deciding factor.
Speaker A:And so I never really talked to anybody about, you know, me being a pro gun guy or anything of that sort.
Speaker A:And, you know, I just came to church, you know, did my thing, went home, you know, and I was.
Speaker A:I was running our local gun store at the time, and something happened in the news.
Speaker A:And inevitably, people always come because the University of Missouri has a really big journalism school.
Speaker A:So you get a lot of people that hot topic like second amendment or firearms, they always want to come talk to me.
Speaker A:So I'm like, all right.
Speaker A:Well, just so you know, I'm also recording this because I've been.
Speaker A:I've had things taken out of context or you've said my words in a different way.
Speaker A:So I have proof of exactly how that conversation went.
Speaker A:They printed my interview in a newspaper, and it came to print on a Saturday.
Speaker A:And the next morning, I'm at church, and the lead pastor, like, literally comes up to me.
Speaker A:He's like, hey, Mike, I want to talk to you.
Speaker A:And I'm just like, oh, he knows who I am.
Speaker A:It was a fairly large church.
Speaker A:And so he just came up to me.
Speaker A:He's like, hey, I saw that article, that interview you did in the paper yesterday.
Speaker A:I'm like, yeah, like, I've been completely off his radar for so long.
Speaker A:He's like.
Speaker A:I just want to say.
Speaker A:He's like, that was really well said.
Speaker A:He goes, you brought up some points that I never really considered to think about it from your perspective.
Speaker A:And I'm just like, I opened his eyes, you know, I was like, and that's so important.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker C:First of all, did not realize that was a law in Missouri.
Speaker C:That's crazy.
Speaker B:It's the same way in Ohio, too.
Speaker C:Really?
Speaker B:Yeah, There's.
Speaker C:Man.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:With Missouri's concealed carry, there's like seven places you can't carry in churches, church on Sunday.
Speaker C:And listen, so I live in a great state and I. I love it, but it's just.
Speaker C:I don't.
Speaker A:Missouri has really good gun laws, but there.
Speaker A:There are a few.
Speaker A:There are a few what we would call poison pills that get put into there on occasion.
Speaker C:But that's crazy.
Speaker B:I had the same experience as Mike.
Speaker B:So in college, my senior thesis paper was about campus carrying.
Speaker B:And my professor at the time who was in charge of my senior thesis was.
Speaker B:He wasn't anti 2A, but he wasn't really pro 2A and I get over to like, I write up the first half of my paper and I send it to him and the first words out of his mouth is, any God fearing American wouldn't carry in a church.
Speaker B:You know, when I grew up, when I lived in Texas, we had to hang our church, our guns in the, the vestibule and then we went in the church.
Speaker B:By the time I was done with the paper, he called me in and we, we talked for a little bit.
Speaker B:He's like, you kind of changed my mind.
Speaker B:He goes, I didn't know because it's Ohio is weird.
Speaker B:And I went to, I'll say I went to Kent State, which if anybody knows anything about Kent State, there's a.
Speaker A:Little bit of history, there's a little.
Speaker B:History, there's a little history there.
Speaker B:And I actually graduated like the year after Caitlyn did.
Speaker B:And so part of my paper in Ohio, the, the public colleges are owned by the state.
Speaker B:So if you went to school, you weren't allowed to carry on campus.
Speaker B:But if you were just the general public walking through campus, just because you're walking through, you were allowed to carry.
Speaker B:There was no like in, in between, like, oh, you're, you're.
Speaker B:If I was a student or if I was going to a building on campus for an event on campus, I couldn't carry.
Speaker B:But if I was walking through there after I graduated again, that's why that picture happened.
Speaker B:Because after she graduated she could carry on campus.
Speaker B:It was legal.
Speaker B:So I put it.
Speaker B:He goes, I didn't know that.
Speaker B:I'm like, yeah, that's, that's a law in the state of Ohio that because it's public land, you can carry.
Speaker B:So I changed his mind.
Speaker B:He was like, yeah, we should really get campus carry in Ohio.
Speaker B:And I also changed one of my other professors minds the same thing when they found out what I did because I didn't, I didn't like public same thing.
Speaker B:Like I didn't like talking about it because it's taboo.
Speaker B:And I kind of told her and she's like, hey, I'm kind of thinking about getting into this.
Speaker B:Like, what do you recommend?
Speaker B:And so it's, it's cool when you get to that where you're bringing in new people and you're changing their mind, but at the same time, like, there's some really weird BS laws out there that like, because I'm a college student, I can't carry on campus.
Speaker B:But there's things happening on campus that are pretty bad, right?
Speaker C:No, absolutely.
Speaker A:I Mean, think about the places that you're typically going to see that type of thing happen.
Speaker A:It's going to be campuses of some sort, churches.
Speaker C:I mean, soft targets in general.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker C:And, you know, that's one of the things that we talk a lot about, are these soft targets, because you're placing, in my opinion, and this is Kaylee speaking, because this isn't like a fully thought out idea.
Speaker C:I guess this is just me talking to get this out of my brain.
Speaker C:But there's a certain amount of devaluing of life in a soft target because you are intrinsically opening it up to more harm.
Speaker C:And I think in a culture that devalues people is a dangerous culture.
Speaker C:And that probably wasn't said in a super eloquent way.
Speaker C:But I think when we talk about campus carry and when we talk about churches and we talk about these places, that hostility can exist.
Speaker C:We need to start addressing, well, the lives there matter, and they should have the ability to defend themselves.
Speaker C:And we need to do what we can to ensure that they understand that their life has value.
Speaker C:And that's why we're allowing.
Speaker C:And this is why we're encouraging you to carry it.
Speaker C:And we're working on hardening those areas so that you're not in a soft target situation.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker A:Well, one of the things that, you know, going back to the instructor that I used to instruct with and, you know, one of my mentors, he used to go around to a lot of places in Missouri that had, you know, no firearms, no weapons signs or whatever on their premises, and he would try to talk to the people at those properties and say, you know, essentially you're guaranteeing their safety by saying they can't protect themselves.
Speaker A:You know, so he was trying to open it up.
Speaker A:He's like, you realize the liability you're opening yourself up to also by not letting someone protect themselves on your premises.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker A:And he started kind of getting people to think that way.
Speaker A:Like, I mean, and that is one.
Speaker A:That is one kind of different way to look at it is, okay, you're saying I cannot.
Speaker A:You're removing my ability to protect myself while I am in your presence.
Speaker A:So you're saying you're protecting me.
Speaker A:Oh, you're not protecting me, but I can't protect myself.
Speaker A:So if something bad happens to me, everything in my power is coming after you.
Speaker C:Yeah, I mean, yeah, that's an excellent point.
Speaker C:I also think that they're also leaning towards if criminals want to do criminal things, not only in the.
Speaker C:The sake of going and hurting someone else, but Just simply stealing.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker C:And.
Speaker C:And potentially breaking in a car and stealing a firearm because that person had no other choice but to.
Speaker C:To leave it in their car.
Speaker C:I mean, those kind of things also, I think, encourage bad behavior.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker C:In many ways.
Speaker B:Well, I just talked to somebody in the industry not too long ago about this.
Speaker B:They were at a big event, and they couldn't get into the Armory because something happened, and somebody broke in their car and stole a bunch of stuff.
Speaker B:It's, like, cool.
Speaker B:So, because you guys wouldn't let me drop my stuff up at the Armory, like, you're like, I'm supposed to.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:But, you know, by the rules of your event.
Speaker B:My stuff got stolen.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:It's like.
Speaker A:Well, and it's.
Speaker A:I mean, kind of like we've.
Speaker A:I. I hate the fact that we're in an industry that as much as we want to be vocal and as much as we want to be supportive, we still have to tread lightly around certain people.
Speaker A:Just because, like I said, I. I hate the fact that we're.
Speaker A:We're this way because, like, I want to spread the knowledge and, you know, and squash the ignorance around it.
Speaker A:But there.
Speaker A:There are times and places to do that.
Speaker A:And, you know, that's why I kind of dodge it sometimes when people, hey, what do you do for a living?
Speaker A:I'm in marketing.
Speaker A:You know, I mean, I can.
Speaker A:I can kind of deflect if I want to, because I'm like, yeah, the middle of the grocery store, you know, meat aisle is not necessarily the place to get into this heated conversation or, you know, wherever it is.
Speaker A:It's like, I would.
Speaker A:I. I invite people all the time.
Speaker A:It's like, hey, if.
Speaker A:If you have questions, I am happy to sit down and have a conversation with you.
Speaker A:I was like, but when you're not prepared and you're running strictly off of emotion and not any facts, nothing's going to get done.
Speaker B:Well, and that was.
Speaker B:So when.
Speaker B:When I bought my first house and in Dayton.
Speaker B:Well, that's when I worked at Faxon.
Speaker B:I. I met my neighbors.
Speaker B:They did.
Speaker B:They were doing a garage sale.
Speaker B:So I walked over, and he had a bayonet sitting there.
Speaker B:And I'm like, oh, cool.
Speaker B:You know, that's a.
Speaker B:What gun is that for?
Speaker B:Or whatever.
Speaker B:We get to talking, and then he's like, oh, you just moved here.
Speaker B:What do you do for a living?
Speaker B:I'm, like, real nervous about saying it, but I kind of got the hint.
Speaker B:And he was just like.
Speaker B:I was like, I work for a firearms manufacturer.
Speaker B:And he goes, oh, which One.
Speaker B:I'm like, oh, I work for Fax.
Speaker B:And he's like, oh my God, their stuff is so cool.
Speaker B:I'm like, okay, cool.
Speaker B:I got one good neighbor.
Speaker B:Then that was the guy behind me and he was great.
Speaker B:Then the guy next door to me, same thing, was like, oh, what do you do?
Speaker B:And I'm like, he's like, I was like, I work for a firearms manufacturer.
Speaker B:Same thing, cool guy across the street, same day.
Speaker B:It was cool, like when you have some Pro2A neighbors.
Speaker B:But it's always really worried that I'm like, are you, how pro2a are you?
Speaker C:Yeah, right.
Speaker B:Preach the good word to you.
Speaker B:But I'm.
Speaker C:Well, I think there's, there's something to be said for tactfulness because you're not going to change someone's mind by screaming at them.
Speaker C:You're not going to change someone's mind if they are in that heated and emotional state.
Speaker C:Anything you say, they're not listening.
Speaker C:They're just waiting for their next time to speak and respond.
Speaker C:You have to find someone at the right time and the right way.
Speaker C:Like what happened with your pastor, like what happened with your professor is you have to find the right way to convey at a time when they're willing to actually listen.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker C:And if they're not willing to listen, then there's really.
Speaker C:They're gonna have to come into the community in a different way.
Speaker C:And we spend a lot of time talking about what is the on ramp to the Second Amendment.
Speaker C:And I think it changes for different people, different demographics, what's going on and what their response to what's happening is.
Speaker C:And there is no one size fits all approach to introducing someone to the second Amendment.
Speaker C:There's not.
Speaker C:In fact, if you look at Gun Owners foundation and goa, you'll see that what we do varies.
Speaker C:Like for example, we have a really fun little show called Shots Fired that's geared towards like Gen Z, younger millennial, and whatever is after Gen Z.
Speaker C:It's very fast paced, it's like neon.
Speaker C:It's, it's done by Gen Z for Gen Z and they're loving it.
Speaker C:And we love that they love it.
Speaker C:And like that's great, right?
Speaker C:On the flip side, there are people who want to watch something like this and really kind of long form conversations.
Speaker C:And then there are people who just care about policy and we have to have something for those people.
Speaker C:And if it was a one size fits all, it would make every single person's job in marketing so easy and they would only need to employ like 10 people, period.
Speaker B:What do you mean?
Speaker A:Especially.
Speaker A:Yeah, in our industry.
Speaker A:I mean, they're.
Speaker C:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker A:I mean, so there's all the different approaches to the different demographics, but then, I mean, looking at cmg, I mean, we're an AR manufacturer.
Speaker A:Okay.
Speaker A:Some people want nothing to do with an ar.
Speaker A:They're cool with every other kind of firearm, you know, but want nothing to do with an ar.
Speaker A:Or you have somebody that is huge, you know, AR guy.
Speaker A:But keep that AK away from me.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker A:You know, it's just there, there are people that are very particular in their likes and dislikes.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker A:And then so you have that split into all the different age demographics.
Speaker A:Yeah, it's marketing and.
Speaker A:Well, I mean, to top it off, you have all of the platforms that we try to use to spread the gospel of the Second Amendment to the people that get censored or suppressed or they're not getting through the algorithms, they're not being shown to everybody, or it goes against community guidelines that have changed 10 million times in the last five years.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker C:I think Meta and just Big Tech in general changed their minds more than the atf.
Speaker C:And that is genuinely saying.
Speaker B:Yeah, that's a lot like, okay, so you brought up like, people like certain things and things like that as a manufacturer, and this is what I love, our community, but this is one thing I hate about our community.
Speaker B:You too, as a manufacturer, you come up with something that you think is innovative, but if you're too far outside of the box, you get hated on.
Speaker B:You're like, ah, this doesn't fit.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:Or this isn't which box?
Speaker B:Yeah, right.
Speaker B:But you know, you know, there's.
Speaker B:There are certain companies out there who have tried throwing things at the wall and seeing if it sticks.
Speaker B:And everyone's like, why did they come out with that?
Speaker B:Why did you do that for?
Speaker B:Like, as a manufacturer, when you come up with something that you think is innovative, are you like, I'm really worried that people are going to hate this.
Speaker A:Or you've seen what we've come up with.
Speaker A:I mean, it.
Speaker A:Where is it?
Speaker A:To the point now we're like, we're making it.
Speaker A:People are going to like it or they're not going to like it.
Speaker A:Certain, certain things.
Speaker A:The mark 57, for example.
Speaker A:So when we came out with the Banshee chambered in 57, that took in.
Speaker A:That took 57 style magazines, we were like, we don't know how well this is going to be received.
Speaker A:So when we initially released the Mark 57, it was a limited run.
Speaker A:Like, we, we tooled up to make X amount.
Speaker A:And we're like, okay, we hope we sell this many.
Speaker A:It went gangbusters and we're like, okay, now it's part of our lineup.
Speaker A:It's no longer a limited production.
Speaker A:So I mean we, we think outside the box so much and in our always looking at all those different calibers enough that we have ammo manufacturers coming to us going, you know, behind closed doors like, hey, we're working on this new cartridge.
Speaker A:Would you guys support it for launch?
Speaker A:Sure, why not?
Speaker A:You know, and then it releases and we're like, oh, that round was kind of horrible.
Speaker A:So maybe we're not going to sell that gun anymore.
Speaker A:But you know, I mean, we're always willing to try.
Speaker A:As in any social media, anything of that sort of.
Speaker A:The, the first rule for the most part is don't read the comments, people.
Speaker C:I'm awful.
Speaker C:I'm awful at it.
Speaker A:So it's one of those things.
Speaker A:Like it, it took me a while to learn this because I, I love the company that I work for.
Speaker A:I mean, like you, I'm sure you can imagine, actually, I mean, I, I truly love what I do, who I work for, the, you know, the people I work for, the people I work with.
Speaker A:So whenever somebody is attacking CMMG in the comments, to me, it's a personal attack.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker A:I'm like, you're attacking my livelihood.
Speaker A:But I have to stop and realize this is somebody on the Internet.
Speaker A:Being a person on the Internet.
Speaker A:They could have continued to scroll and never even engage that, you know.
Speaker A:But the thing is, a lot of those people are actually trying to get some kind of a rise out of you.
Speaker A:If you respond in the slightest, no matter how kind or whatever you might try to say, they know they got to you because you responded.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker A:You know, so you could do like certain people that I know that just blanket heart reply, you know, like every comment, it gets a heart.
Speaker A:I don't care how mean it is or what.
Speaker A:They don't respond to anything.
Speaker A:They just acknowledge.
Speaker A:So it's interaction.
Speaker A:So it's.
Speaker A:We're not going to win them all, you know, I mean, the roots, where we came from.
Speaker A:I mean, we came from, you know, piecing together guns at gun shows and what we back in the day called our trash can guns.
Speaker A:Like we would literally have trash cans full of AR15s at a gun show.
Speaker A:You just come like, pull one out.
Speaker A:It's like four or five hundred dollars, you know.
Speaker A:Well, since then, you know, we've, we've invested a lot and a lot of People don't realize that too is certain people won't always like our prices, but people don't realize what it goes into to get to that to be released to the public.
Speaker A:So you'll see people, they're like, oh, you sent this to this many YouTubers.
Speaker A:I'm like, well, we have to advertise in some way, shape or form this product that we've been working on behind the scenes for two years.
Speaker A:You know, it's like the development process could be two years, could be more, who knows?
Speaker A:And so we're actively paying engineers and all that stuff to work on a project that we're making no money on while they're working on it, you know, so people don't realize that.
Speaker A:And then you have the tne, you have the time to figure out how to get the machines programmed to, to CNC it and things of that sort.
Speaker A:So there's, okay, let's build up a test model.
Speaker A:Oh, everything looked good on paper, but that didn't work once we actually put it into practice.
Speaker A:Now we got to go back and figure out where that disconnect is.
Speaker A:So, you know, there's, there's a lot of time and a lot of effort put into stuff behind the scenes that people just think, you know, when we released the 45, you know, and everything kind of fell through.
Speaker A:Everybody was like, when's the 10 millimeter coming out?
Speaker A:We were one of the first companies to come out with a 10 millimeter functional 10 millimeter AR.
Speaker A:A lot of people had had them at shot show and stuff and said, hey, look at this coming.
Speaker A:And we've still never seen it to this day.
Speaker A:And so we actually succeeded in getting that out there and.
Speaker A:But people thought, well, you already have the 45.
Speaker A:It takes the same size magazines, but the feed limp, like shelf is at a different height.
Speaker A:So it technically doesn't take the same magazine.
Speaker A:Whereas it is diam, you know, physical dimensions, right.
Speaker A:For the Magwell, it doesn't seat at the same spot.
Speaker A:And they're like, well, you could just take that, move it up and re chamber it.
Speaker A:Well, 45 pressures are completely different than 10 millimeter pressures.
Speaker A:It's not simply re chambering.
Speaker A:You all of a sudden have to start looking at, you know, spring rates and things and you know, bolt thrust and, you know, all those different specs and like, okay, is this, Is the metal of this extractor going to hold up to this abuse?
Speaker A:Do we need change the metal on the extractor, whatever the case is, so people don't realize all the little Stuff they, they think, oh, it is that easy to make it.
Speaker A:Like if it is that easy.
Speaker A:I mean, I hate to sound like, you know, you know, a wise guy, but if it is that easy, go start an ffl, go start a manufacturing process and see how easy this stuff actually is.
Speaker B:Well, you brought up one of my biggest, biggest pet peeves about the industry right now.
Speaker B:And that's showing something off a shot, getting all the reactions, getting everything built, getting like everyone, I want a vaporware.
Speaker B:I want it now.
Speaker B:But it's vaporware.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:Like, I've had long conversations with marketing guys around the country and I'm gonna call, call it what it is.
Speaker B:One of the best at doing a launch is Spring Field.
Speaker B:Okay?
Speaker B:They've got guns in hands in the market.
Speaker B:And I've talked to the, I've talked to a couple owners of companies, a couple marketing guys.
Speaker B:I'm like, why aren't you doing this?
Speaker B:Like you under, you've seen there's a template here, do the template.
Speaker B:And, and they're like, well, you know, we just want to launch it the old school way because that's what everyone does it right now.
Speaker B:Our society is so instant gratification, an instant want.
Speaker B:If you don't capture on that as soon as you go, yeah, this product is cool.
Speaker B:The hype is gone by the time you decide to launch it.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker B:And it's a. I feel bad for them because I get, I get it, I get it.
Speaker B:There's a lot of time and money that goes into it.
Speaker B:You don't want to put something out if it's not going to sell at the same time.
Speaker B:You got to take the risk sometimes.
Speaker A:Well, that's, that's been one of our approaches.
Speaker A:Every time we come up with something new is we typically don't announce it until we are ready.
Speaker A:Like we have it.
Speaker A:We've either already got some produced and in the queue or we are 100 producing and just waiting to assemble.
Speaker A:But we typically don't go to market unless we are ready for it.
Speaker A:Or there have been a couple times where we'll release something and it might be a pre order but the pre order is like typically no longer than like a month.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker A:You know, so but we, we typically never come to market with something that isn't fully realized is, isn't ready to be manufact, not already be shipped.
Speaker A:Like the Mark 47 descent that just came out yesterday.
Speaker A:You know, we had, we had a plan in place so that dealers could order it prior and as of it being live, you know, yesterday, there are going to be certain dealers, you could have walked into their store yesterday and bought one off the shelf, you know, so they went live on our website yesterday.
Speaker A:You could purchase them on our website yesterday.
Speaker A:So I mean that, that's one of the things is like, you know, we've got to do this right.
Speaker A:You know, it.
Speaker A:Admittedly, we probably don't have enough in, you know, in production at the moment for the demand that we're hoping it's going to generate.
Speaker A:But with that growth that we had last year in the machining and the factoring stuff, we're going to be able to at least keep the wait time down and be able to fulfill fairly quickly.
Speaker A:So we're hoping that, you know, it.
Speaker A:We, we've seen that enough too, where you have something that becomes vaporware and we, we just don't, we don't like to subscribe to that.
Speaker B:Well, and it makes your customer base mad, or it makes them like everything.
Speaker A:Makes our customer base mad.
Speaker B:To say you're not wrong, but like, I've seen companies go to shot and go to the other big shows and they've got this new cool thing on the floor and everyone's like, yeah, I want it.
Speaker B:And then 12 months later it may.
Speaker A:I want to throw one company under the bus if I can, but I don't want to.
Speaker A:It's like I, I would say this with as much love as possible because I own one of these firearms.
Speaker A:Finally, after the four and a half years it took from them introducing it to actually getting in people's hands.
Speaker A:It's a certain bullpup shotgun.
Speaker B:Yes.
Speaker A:That everybody wanted that.
Speaker A:They drummed up so much hype for it and it literally took four years.
Speaker A:Well, it might not have been literally four years, but it felt like four years.
Speaker A:It was at least three before anybody got their head.
Speaker C:Perspective is reality, though, and those sort of things, especially in an Amazon age where people expect.
Speaker C:Right two days like it's.
Speaker C:It, it's not, it's not possible in so many.
Speaker A:Well, we've actually had to shift our manufacturing technique or policy forever.
Speaker A:We have been a build to own company, so.
Speaker A:Or build the order.
Speaker A:Sorry.
Speaker A:So when you go to our website and you place the order, we don't manufacture that firearm until you have placed the order.
Speaker A:Because we have a multitude of colors and let's face it, compared to a lot of AR manufacturers, we have a lot of choices.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker A:So being able to know what inventory to keep on hand sometimes could be hit and miss.
Speaker A:We're like, oh, this is trending right now.
Speaker A:Let's build up some of this because everybody wants one and then something happens and all of a sudden nobody wants that and they want the new hotness.
Speaker A:So being.
Speaker A:Having an idea of what to keep on hand has always been tricky.
Speaker A:So we always built when you ordered it, but now with all the new manufacturing and everything that we have in house, we're able to get ahead of that.
Speaker A:So we actually do have inventory on hand for a lot of things.
Speaker A:So hopefully we have the right things on, on hand.
Speaker A:But inevitably it's going to be like, oh, there'll be a new color that's trending.
Speaker A:That we're like, huh, that wasn't very popular.
Speaker A:We didn't have very many of those in stock.
Speaker A:So.
Speaker C:So I am curious and I don't know if you guys have this, this sort of thing or data for this sort of thing, but is there a difference in what colors sell between male and female?
Speaker C:Like, do you, do you know, I,.
Speaker A:I don't really think there's that much of a difference.
Speaker A:I mean, I, I think everybody has their own perspective on what they think is cool.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker A:And yeah, we're, we definitely, we don't sell pink ars because I don't think anybody would actually buy them.
Speaker A:No, you know, it's, it's, you know, coming from the gun store background, you know, I would definitely was not the gun store salesman that saw a female walk in the door and said, oh, you need a pink lady.
Speaker A:You know.
Speaker C:Thank you.
Speaker C:Bless you.
Speaker A:My, my first rule, I mean, what people didn't typically realize is, all right, it's small.
Speaker A:Yeah, you think petite.
Speaker A:You, your brain just is going to associate that with.
Speaker A:That might be something that I want to get for my fiance, but ultimately.
Speaker A:So this is the instructor side of me going is you want something that is going to be comfortable in your hand and enough power for you to shoot and not be uncomfortable.
Speaker A:So carry the biggest caliber you can in the most comfortable platform possible and then just base it off of that.
Speaker A:Because like, when I first started into the industry, the new hotness at the time was like the Ruger LCP little pocket.380.
Speaker A:That started a huge conceal and carry craze.
Speaker A:Like, I mean, you didn't see as much conceal and carry until that gun came out.
Speaker A:Then all of a sudden everybody's concealing, carrying those in crossbreed holsters.
Speaker A:I mean, so, I mean, yeah, those two things and you, you had, you had a great combination.
Speaker A:But what people didn't realize is you had no ability to Grip that gun very well.
Speaker A:It felt like a firecracker going off in your hand.
Speaker A:It was not comfortable to shoot.
Speaker A:It had a horrendous trigger.
Speaker A:There were so many things wrong with that gun, but it fit a specific, you know, place in the market.
Speaker A:But.
Speaker A:And everybody came in saying, you need that.
Speaker A:I'm like, no, you know, hang on.
Speaker A:Does a Glock 26 fit you better?
Speaker A:Does Glock 19 fit you better?
Speaker A:I don't care what the gun is.
Speaker A:If it's comfortable in your hand and you can shoot it well, we will find a way for you to carry it, you know?
Speaker B:Yeah, that was.
Speaker B:I remember being.
Speaker B:Had two guns that got brought back the most when I was behind the counter was LCPS and bodyguards all the time.
Speaker A:Yeah, I remember.
Speaker A:I like their slides from me.
Speaker A:Their slides would lock up a lot on those.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:Oh, yeah.
Speaker A:But.
Speaker A:Yeah, but I mean, the little 380s, everybody thought you had to have a little 380, and for just a little bit more money, you could have got a gun that fit you way better.
Speaker A:Because, I mean, let's face it, when the bodyguard came out, when they initially came out, they all had lasers on them.
Speaker B:Oh, yeah.
Speaker A:You know, so you had the three.
Speaker A:You had the.38 bodyguard, and you had the.380 bodyguard.
Speaker A:Let's not get started on people not knowing the difference between a.38 and a 3.
Speaker A:People hurt.
Speaker A:People see a 3 and an 8 and they think they're the same.
Speaker A:They're not.
Speaker B:That's a whole different rabbit hole.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:So now.
Speaker A:Now you have the whole thing of.
Speaker A:Yeah, I. I bought this ammo for my wife's gun, and it doesn't work.
Speaker A:What'd you get?
Speaker A:I got her this revolver.
Speaker A:Well, that's.380.
Speaker A:That's for a semi automatic.
Speaker A:What's the difference?
Speaker B:I remember a guy, he came in the one time, and he's like, adamant that his gun was a 9 mil Mac.
Speaker B:And I'm like, okay, I'll sell you the ammo if that's what you want.
Speaker B:No, it's a 380 and he was an LCP.
Speaker B:It was like trying to shove nine mil Makarov into the three.
Speaker B:I'm like, oh, my goodness.
Speaker A:So it's nine millimeter curts.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:He's like, oh, yeah, it's nine millimeter small little gun.
Speaker B:I'm like, okay, you brought up a good point about something.
Speaker A:I did?
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:Surprising, right?
Speaker B:So we saw you.
Speaker B:You brought up the point about how, like, something's hot and then something cheaper might come out and we saw that.
Speaker B:And I hate to bring up company names, but they are no longer in business.
Speaker B:So I can bring it up.
Speaker B:We saw that with Hudson.
Speaker B:They had such a cool product.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:And then they came out with they at shot.
Speaker B:They were like, hey, we got this new gun that's going to be coming out and it was way cheaper than their other gun and it killed them.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:Because they didn't have any ready and they were so like as a marketer you got to just think in your head like what was.
Speaker B:Why, why would you do that to yourself if you're not prepared to have stuff ready to ship?
Speaker A:Yeah, I mean that was.
Speaker A:And, and I'm not trying to throw fuel on the fire or anything here, but I mean they essentially were a one trick pony, you know, with, with the.
Speaker A:What was the H11?
Speaker A:What was it?
Speaker B:H9.
Speaker A:H9.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:H9 makes sense.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:I mean when they came out with that and it was my understanding that it was kind of like the last ditch effort.
Speaker A:It shot like they like it is this is going to get picked up at shot or it's not.
Speaker A:So they were already really kind of treading water and then realizing, okay, they've got a price point to hit and realizing that's not for everybody.
Speaker A:I mean it I.
Speaker A:The, no pun intended.
Speaker A:If they stuck to their guns and you know, just stuck with the, the H9, there was a market for it.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:I mean I would love to have had one gun.
Speaker A:And right about the time they were tailing off, I was able to possibly get one, but I'm like, there's no support for it now.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker A:I was like, I was like, I want that gun so bad, but I.
Speaker B:Think somebody bought the rights to it.
Speaker A:I don't know who I heard that, but I've seen nothing of it.
Speaker B:I'm like, please bring it back.
Speaker B:It was cool.
Speaker B:It was a really cool gun, a cool idea, but same thing, look, got thrown to the wayside earlier.
Speaker A:We're talking about just the, the non lawmaking body that makes laws.
Speaker A:A lot of people, I, I have seen people get irritated at us because we comply by changing our pistols and not having pistol braces on them or we made the descent which doesn't have a buffer tube at all on it.
Speaker A:And then you have a lot of people that are like, well, you guys are essentially bending the knee and you're complying to what the ATF says.
Speaker A:Well, as a manufacturer, our piece of paper that says we can do business and make these guns is issued by that particular organization.
Speaker A:So it's while we as people in the background, you know, from ownership management, our officers, you know, down to me, whoever, you know, we all have our beliefs in the Second Amendment and how it should be done and we all personally comply or don't comply, depending on what might be said.
Speaker A:But as a manufacturer that have, can have a particular government agency come in and say you're no longer doing business, you know, we, we unfortunately have to tread lightly in that area too.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker C:No, and listen, that's not, that's not a dumb thing to do.
Speaker C:Right.
Speaker C:You have to be able, in order for you to come up with the next thing.
Speaker C:In order for us to move the needle of innovation, we have to have manufacturers that are able to come out with new products.
Speaker C:Now when it comes to the ATF's, we're on plastic.
Speaker C:Like the, the great thing about it is as I think we have a, a really strong and firm ability to, to win this.
Speaker C:And I think that they, they went way, way too far.
Speaker C:And I think they know it.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker C:And I think that the fact that the bump stock case is headed to the Supreme Court.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker C:Not that I have like a, a crystal ball.
Speaker C:Right.
Speaker C:That's what it is, crystal ball, you know, to see the future.
Speaker C:I do think that it is an important thing to realize that if everyone went out of business and then it was overturned, that they didn't have the authority, which is what should happen.
Speaker C:If there are no companies left.
Speaker C:There are no companies left.
Speaker C:And so you have to make strategic decisions in the battle for our rights.
Speaker C:And I think that the fact that, especially on the pistol brace side, that the joint House resolution was passed by the House that said to the atf.
Speaker C:No, no, no, you don't have that authority that you're claiming to redefine anything and everything to, to restrict.
Speaker C:No, you, you can't just make 30 million Americans felons overnight.
Speaker C:Like those things are positive in the fight, but we can't afford for the industry to die in the process of a legal battle.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker C:And that is an important distinction that has to be said.
Speaker C:And you know, we applaud companies that are able to and willing to stand beside us in those fights and, and understand what GOA does and what our members allow us to do when it comes to fighting those things in the court and beyond our own case, when it comes to pistol braces, we have also submitted amicus briefs in other cases to strengthen arguments so that.
Speaker C:Listen, I'll just get very real to go.
Speaker C:We want nothing more than to see a second amendment Restored so that we are out of business.
Speaker C:We would love for our rights to be so protected that we're not needed.
Speaker A:Right?
Speaker C:And because that is our highest value, we're willing to lock arms and work with other groups.
Speaker C:We're not so siloed that we won't do what is in the best interest of the second amendment.
Speaker C:Now I, as Kaylee and as goa, we feel very strongly that we're working for the best gun organization because why would I want to work for the second best, right?
Speaker C:So I'm very proud of the organization that I work for and I think that we are doing what we need to do.
Speaker C:But there's this drummed up media driven narrative that all of the gun organizations are like infighting.
Speaker C:And listen, as far as we are concerned, as far as GOA is concerned, we want to see a restoration of our rights and that's why we do the amicus briefs.
Speaker C:That's why we file lawsuits on our own.
Speaker C:That's why we do what we do with our members backing us up every step of the way.
Speaker C:And that goes for the industry too.
Speaker C:We at the end of the day, if they kill the industry, they've killed the second amendment.
Speaker A:I want to stand up and applaud right now, but it'd be a little weird on a podcast.
Speaker A:No, I, yeah, I mean I, I as Mike wholeheartedly agree.
Speaker A:I'm sure I could speak on behalf of many people in my organization too.
Speaker A:I mean we weren't part of the GOA lawsuit but you know we, we were actually part of another one of the lawsuits down in Texas regarding the pistol brace ban.
Speaker A:So I mean we're, we're putting our money where our mouth is.
Speaker A:I mean that's one of those things too is, it's just, it's, it's gone way too far.
Speaker A:It should have never gotten to this and just I, I, I could continue on for much longer than I am.
Speaker A:So I, I need to just you know, stymie it a little bit.
Speaker C:But well, since we ended on that note, where can everyone find you all of your socials websites, plug everything that you want to.
Speaker B:I think we need a part two after this too.
Speaker C:Oh absolutely.
Speaker B:Yeah, we need a part.
Speaker A:Well for one, everybody go check out the new Mark 47 descent that just released November 7th.
Speaker A:Hopefully your dealer has it.
Speaker A:If not it is available on our website which is cmmg.
Speaker A:Most of our socials are just going to be CMMG or CMMG Inc.
Speaker A:So I don't have them all memorized.
Speaker A:Off, off top my head.
Speaker A:Obviously we're we got completely nuked from Facebook many years ago and we're just like, yeah, we're okay.
Speaker A:We're not back on that one.
Speaker A:But you know, YouTube, Instagram.
Speaker A:We actually are in a process of getting a new social media person on board.
Speaker A:So you're going to probably start seeing us on a lot more things like X and Rumble and Truth and you know, as many platforms as we can get out there on.
Speaker A:We're gonna have most likely either just CMMG or CMMG Inc.
Speaker A:But CMMG.com will take you to all of the.
Speaker A:The goodness that we have for sale.
Speaker B:Perfect.
Speaker B:Mike, thank you again.
Speaker B:Definitely get a part two with you because I feel like there's another two hours worth of conversation here somewhere at least.
Speaker B:So again, appreciate you being on.
Speaker B:Thanks for having me and we'll see you all next time.
Speaker B:Yeah, because it's eight till and I don't want to keep.
Speaker A:Sorry.
Speaker C:No, it's not a you thing.
